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Music

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In April of this year, a handful of noisy skeptics and debunkers alleged that as a result of

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declining UFO reports and UFO footage, public interest in the phenomena had followed a similar

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declining path.

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Moreover, they alleged that the space around us is dead.

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While NASA and the vast majority of scientists and astronomers around the world would take

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issue with the latter claim, what of the rest?

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The truth is that worldwide, UFO reports have actually shown a marked increase in recent

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years.

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For example, here at UFO magazine, reports submitted since the turn of the year by members

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of the public and UFO researchers alike equate to a 50% increase on the same corresponding

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period of 2001.

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And with that, has come a comparable increase in UFO footage.

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As with UFO reports, approximately 95% of alleged UFO footage can, after proper research

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and analysis, be explained in conventional terms.

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Quite often, this process may take but a few minutes in detecting the telltale characteristics

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or signatures of an aircraft, or planet, or even a star.

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But once you have addressed these, and countless other explanations that might account for

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the unusual anomalous object or light scene, you are left, as with UFO reports, with a

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small residue of videotape sequences that defy all logic and explanation.

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When faced with these, skeptics and debunkers will often cry, fake at best, or simply ignore

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them at worst, as is their custom.

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When analyzing alleged UFO footage, UFO magazine's Russell Callahan applies a totally objective

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stance.

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Often, those who submit what they believe to be genuine UFO footage vehemently disagree

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with his conclusions.

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But what leads him to arrive at those conclusions in the first place?

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Who better to respond to that question than Russell Callahan himself?

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Thank you Graham.

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Well, welcome to the office.

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Here at UFO magazine, one of my jobs involves analyzing alleged images of UFOs.

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Now, grand though that may sound, it is in actual fact a very arduous task.

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Over the last five or six years here at UFO magazine, we've had literally hundreds of

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videotapes sent through the doors.

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This subject, according to some of the popular press, is a subject that's dead on its feet.

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Absolute rubbish is what I can say to that.

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The videotapes just keep coming and coming and coming and photographs, not just digital

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photographs.

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We know, you know, we're living in an electronic age, if you like, and it's very easy and very

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fast to be able to generate images and broadcast them around the world now with the advent of

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the internet.

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But real photographs, you know, on celluloid film, these things are still being taken.

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People are actually still taking the time out to approach UFO magazine or approach UFO

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researchers because they believe they've actually witnessed, filmed and photographed something

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that's not quite the norm.

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That's great.

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And, you know, without the UFO business, there'd be no UFO magazine, and without UFO reports,

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you know, there'd be nothing to put in there.

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Over the last five or six years, there's been no such thing as a decline.

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The subject seems to have grown and grown and grown.

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And probably if we go back, you know, these five or six years, and let's just have a quick

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recap.

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And 10 years ago, the price of a domestic camcorder was, you know, you could go out and buy a

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car just as cheap.

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This day and age, you can go out and pick an 8mm or high 8mm video camera up for about

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£299.

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Now, it's still an awful lot of money, but it's a quarter or if not a fifth the price

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it used to be just a few years ago.

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So we've got to accept that then there are far more camcorders out in the general public,

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if you like.

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There are also professionals out there that are filming strange objects.

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Recently, we've out-footed a police helicopter and made available to UFO magazine.

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We actually showed it at the conference last year, and hopefully we can show you a little

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clip of that further along in this particular video.

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All sorts and all means of images and occurrences have been happening over the past few years.

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And of course, let's not forget the amazing scenes that we've seen and been captured by

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several people.

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Martin Stubbs, Geoff Chalander, Les Willie and the Alice have all been able to make available

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images that, quite frankly, should be embarrassing to NASA.

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We're going to show you some more of that further on in this video.

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So please let no one tell us that the subject's dead.

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What we've done it for this particular section, spotlight on UFO footage, yes, over the last

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five or six years, it's no over exaggeration that we've received literally hundreds and

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hundreds of videotapes.

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We're going to this 95 percent, it's probably more than 95 percent, are mistaken identities.

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Easy done.

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Newcomers to camcorders, newcomers to sky watching, see a satellite, wow, we've got something,

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we can't see any wings, et cetera.

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That's fine.

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Mistaken shots of planets, and that's fine also.

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But there are those occasions where that hardcore percentage keeps coming through that's not

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so easy to actually dismiss.

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We've got quite a good few examples of the like.

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We've also got some interesting developments in if we all think back to 1994 or five, I

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believe it was, when the first Tuesday documentary was aired in Great Britain.

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We had the guy from Panasonic, Simon Nash, dismissing the diamond shape UFO as nothing

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more than an iris motor effect, and something that happened when bright lights, the iris

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motor and the lens records this shape, and it can't resolve the image, so it gives you

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this beautiful diamond shape on the screen.

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Well, we were very wary of that explanation in the first instance because of angles, et

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cetera, now things didn't seem to fit.

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But we've now got some new examples of that, but we've also got a fabulous example from

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Australia where the diamond shape is seen in the sky, but as the camera focuses through

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the diamond shape, then there is an object behind it, and there's also a very strange

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occurrence which you're going to see hopefully for the first time on this particular video.

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But there's a lot of material to get through, so sit back and enjoy it.

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We'll give you the close-ups where we can, and as much information about the footage

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as we can on screen.

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But this particular cut's being put to some nice music, so sit back for the next 15, 20

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minutes or so, and enjoy some really good UFO footage.

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I want you to know you were never there.

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I didn't understand what he meant, because I said yes I was.

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I said no, you weren't.

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I said yes I was.

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He said, can't you get this through your head?

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You never saw anything.

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You were not there.

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You don't know anything.

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And he said, you know, this is a big desert out here.

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You can just take you out in the middle of this desert and no one will ever find your

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body.

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He said, you'll be nothing but bones and nobody will ever know how to handle you.

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And I said, you know, this is a big desert out here.

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You can just take you out in the middle of this desert and no one will ever find your

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body.

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He said, you'll be nothing but bones and nobody will ever know how to handle you.

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And I said, you know, this is a big desert out here.

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You can just take you out in the middle of this desert and no one will ever find your

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body.

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He said, you'll be nothing but bones and nobody will ever know how to handle you.

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And I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought if I would not talk about it.

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I thought I would not talk about it.

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thank you cast

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it was a joke.

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it was a joke.

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yes, yes.

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I don't understand what you're saying.

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I don't understand what you're saying.

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I don't understand what you're saying.

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I don't understand what you're saying.

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I don't understand what you're saying.

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I don't understand what you're saying.

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I don't understand what you're saying.

248
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I don't understand what you're saying.

249
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I don't understand what you're saying.

250
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I don't understand what you're saying.

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I don't understand what you're saying.

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I don't understand what you're saying.

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I don't understand what you're saying.

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I don't understand what you're saying.

255
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I don't understand what you're saying.

256
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I don't understand what you're saying.

257
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I don't understand what you're saying.

258
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I don't understand what you're saying.

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I don't understand what you're saying.

260
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I don't understand what you're saying.

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I don't understand what you're saying.

262
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I don't understand what you're saying.

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I don't understand what you hear.

264
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I explain instead.

265
00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:08,560
I don't understand what you're saying.

266
00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:10,560
I don't understand what you're saying.

267
00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:12,560
I don't understand what you're saying.

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The land is full of gold

269
00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:24,360
The land is full of gold

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00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:28,360
The land is full of gold

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00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:49,560
The land is full of gold

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00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:55,560
The land is full of gold

273
00:16:55,560 --> 00:17:02,560
The land is full of gold

274
00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:09,560
The land is full of gold

275
00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:14,560
The land is full of gold

276
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That car just let that one off

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That's a man made one, that one

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I just saw that people in that car let that one off

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Flying in the wind direction

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And just let it off

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The land is full of gold

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The land is full of gold

283
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The land is full of gold

284
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The land is full of gold

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00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:10,560
The land is full of gold

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00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:16,560
The land is full of gold

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The land is full of gold

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The land is full of gold

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The land is full of gold

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The land is full of gold

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The land is full of gold

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00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:57,560
The land is full of gold

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The land is full of gold

294
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:11,560
The land is full of gold

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00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:17,560
The land is full of gold

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The land is full of gold

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00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:33,560
The land is full of gold

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The land is full of gold

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The land is full of gold

300
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The land is full of gold

301
00:20:55,560 --> 00:21:02,560
The land is full of gold

302
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:08,560
The land is full of gold

303
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:14,560
The land is full of gold

304
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:20,560
The land is full of gold

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00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:27,560
The land is full of gold

306
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:33,560
The land is full of gold

307
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:39,560
The land is full of gold

308
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The land is full of gold

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The land is full of gold

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The land is full of gold

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The land is full of gold

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The land is full of gold

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The land is full of gold

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The land is full of gold

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The land is full of gold

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The land is full of gold

317
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The land is full of gold

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The land is full of gold

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The land is full of gold

320
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The land is full of gold

321
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The land is full of gold

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The land is full of gold

323
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The land is full of gold

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The land is full of gold

325
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The land is full of gold

326
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The land is full of gold

327
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The land is full of gold

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The land is full of gold

329
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The land is full of silver

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The land is full of silver

331
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The land is full of silver

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This is a basic iris motor

333
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:24,560
The principle of the iris motor is to regulate the amount of light entering the camera.

334
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:29,560
The iris motor will open on very dull scenes, imporily illuminated scenes,

335
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:33,560
and close down on very high intensity or brightly lit scenes.

336
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,560
We actually have no idea what this sort of object is here in the sky.

337
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,560
It could be reflection from a plane or some other light source.

338
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But as the camera starts to zoom in, you can clearly see here

339
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:50,560
the shape of the actual iris elements within the lens section of the camera.

340
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,560
It appears to be caused by a reflection of light entering the front of the camera

341
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and bouncing around between the lens elements.

342
00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:00,560
And of course sandwich between the lens elements is of course the iris motor.

343
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Just so you know.

344
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:17,380
Pro measure

345
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:18,920
M Mill

346
00:26:19,140 --> 00:26:19,680
M

347
00:26:21,700 --> 00:26:22,340
Lutor

348
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:35,920
The Police Reporting UFO Sightings Organisation, or PROPHOS for short, is the brainchild of

349
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:41,200
Gary Heseltine, a detective constable with British Transport Police.

350
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:47,520
By the summer of this year, DC Heseltine had accumulated 42 UFO incidents involving some

351
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:54,840
110 police officers throughout Britain. Here, again for the first time on camera, DC Heseltine

352
00:30:54,840 --> 00:31:00,040
speaks about his interest in the subject and what he hopes PROPHOS will achieve.

353
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:04,280
My name is Gary Heseltine and I'm a detective constable with the British Transport Police

354
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:09,640
in Leeds. I've been a detective constable for nine years and I've been a police officer

355
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:15,760
for 13 years. Prior to the Transport Police, I was a Royal Air Force police officer for

356
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:24,160
six years. Gary, PROPHOS is an acronym that people are going to be seeing a lot of, hopefully,

357
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:30,280
on the website. They'll have read about it in UFO Magazine. Again, what does PROPHOS

358
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:37,280
actually stand for? PROPHOS is, hopefully, a catchy little acronym which stands for the

359
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:44,240
Police Reporting of UFO Sightings, i.e. the PROPHOS Police Database, which is designed

360
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:51,560
for serving and retired police officers to come forward with their own respective sightings.

361
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:57,840
My interest in the subject actually spans back to when I was 15. Very briefly, I was

362
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:05,520
walking a girlfriend home in Scunthorpe Lincolnshire when I saw a lighted object against a Starlit

363
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:14,080
Sky which appeared to trigger a series of power grid failures, which, to my mind, made it

364
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:19,520
very unusual. That interest inspired me to read books, etc., and follow the subject for

365
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:28,440
many, many years. In the late 90s, with the advent of UFO Magazine, a glossy publication,

366
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I sort of reacquainted myself with the subject and was literally amazed to see how much what

367
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:42,080
I would call police evidence was involved in the current scene. I began to read up on

368
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:47,440
all the current books and I would come across police reports in various books. I began to

369
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:53,600
think that there may well be a need for a reported agency to cater for police officers. What

370
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:58,440
you've got to understand is that for those of the police officers that have come forward,

371
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:05,880
I suspect that 9 out of 10 don't, for obvious reasons, are perhaps a periodical and also

372
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:12,800
a perceived threat to their career aspirations. That, I think, is a genuine reason why a lot

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00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:18,840
of officers would never come forward to report things. The way I believe that I could get

374
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:25,240
around that, and I believe it is working already, is that I offer, or the Proof Force Database,

375
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:33,840
offers a confidentiality agreement that officers can contact me. I will get the correct story

376
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:40,120
from them. I will promise to protect their identities much in the same way that I would

377
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:47,160
protect someone who gave police information as an informant or a confidential source.

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Basically, I will bring their story out into the public domain. I mail to very slightly

379
00:33:53,680 --> 00:34:00,080
certain details to protect their identity, but my principal aim is to get these reports

380
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,240
into the public domain, because that's what I think is being missing.

381
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:12,360
When we talk about a lack of willingness, if you like, from certain officers to divulge

382
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:17,720
information on this particular subject, are we noticing anything sort of geographically

383
00:34:17,720 --> 00:34:24,720
about this? Is it the case that city forces seem to be probably hardly interested in the

384
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:32,880
subject, but yet our country-file type of bobby's probably get more opportunity and probably

385
00:34:33,240 --> 00:34:37,920
less ridiculed, if you like, of the subject? Is there something in that?

386
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:43,400
I think at this present time, with the database only being in existence for six months, it's

387
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:50,400
probably too early to draw sort of geographical statistics, what I can say is from the research

388
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:58,320
that I have done and from the new officers that have come forward since its launch in

389
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:05,320
January, that I've just completed a report which is based on that historical research

390
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:14,280
and on the new information. What I can say is that 42 incidents spanning from 1955 to

391
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:21,800
2002, that involves well over 100 officers, in fact 110 police officers in those 42 reports.

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00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:29,600
And the statistic that strikes me as being relevant is that over 60% of those cases,

393
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:40,680
60% of the 42, are multiple police witness cases, sometimes ranging from anywhere from

394
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:48,200
two up to one particular case where there are 17 officers involved who see an object

395
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:56,200
from at least five different geographical locations, which I believe is a very impressive

396
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:57,200
case indeed.

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00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:04,200
Obviously without giving too much away at this particular point, are there channels in place,

398
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:15,800
shall we say, for the officers who have experienced an alleged UFO sighting? To report this at

399
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:18,800
work, if you like?

400
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:25,300
Yes, what you have in England and Wales are 43 county police forces and I can't speak

401
00:36:25,300 --> 00:36:32,300
for everyone but I would say the vast majority of forces do have a force policy that would

402
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:39,400
allow for an officer to make an unusual aerial phenomena, shall we say, report and that would

403
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:45,560
be usually passed forward to the Ministry of Defence and in some cases that may well lead

404
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:52,560
to an MOD investigation. Certainly some of the cases that I highlight in the report that

405
00:36:53,000 --> 00:37:00,000
I have just completed have led to MOD investigations and some of those remain unknown.

406
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:05,600
That sounds like the next question in your experience, has this happened and obviously

407
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:06,840
yes it has.

408
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:12,240
Yes, certainly in the historical research aspect I have come across a number of cases

409
00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:18,960
which are quite well known within the UFO circle or domain if you like, but they did

410
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:25,960
lead to MOD investigations and many of those have resulted in an unknown conclusion.

411
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:32,800
Going back to your time as an Air Force policeman, was the UFO chatter around in your life at

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00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:34,240
that time?

413
00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:39,400
I certainly had the interest at that time but I can honestly say that during my time

414
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:46,200
in the Air Force I did not ever really get into any proper discussion or dwell or find

415
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:53,200
out anything of particular interest. What is interesting is some of the information

416
00:37:54,280 --> 00:38:01,280
that I am now getting back from people and officers and civilian support staff. My own

417
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:06,760
Air Force, the British Transport Police in January of this year coincidentally set up

418
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:13,760
its own intranet site for officers where they could highlight clubs and leisure facilities

419
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:19,920
etc. I immediately posted an intranet site for the pre-force database asking my own

420
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:26,920
force officers to come forward with any information. It got a lot of ridicule at first as you would

421
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:33,920
expect from police officers who are known wit, but beyond that as I expected a discussion

422
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:40,240
is ongoing. What I can say is that very recently I have had a piece of information that relates

423
00:38:40,240 --> 00:38:47,240
to a very similar time when I was in the Air Force about an incident in 1993 which in terms

424
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:55,240
of background information is very interesting as it highlights what is now a serving transport

425
00:38:55,240 --> 00:39:01,160
police officer as a sergeant whose details will remain confidential. But it highlights

426
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:08,160
an incident where in Wigrat which was a little town which was in Germany, if you were in

427
00:39:08,720 --> 00:39:14,160
the forces you lived in the German community off base and they were in their quarters in

428
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:21,160
Germany in 1993 when they heard a very loud explosion and they believed it was a terrorist

429
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:26,880
bomb because at the time there had been a number of terrorist incidents. Everybody in

430
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:32,440
the flats that this particular officer was in went out into the balconies onto the road

431
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:39,440
wondering what has happened. Now incidentally within an hour of that bang and there may

432
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:46,560
have been two bangs it was enough to shake the windows, it was perceived as a bomb.

433
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:54,200
It turned out not to be a bomb. The SSVC which is the services TV and radio channel came

434
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,680
over the air within the hour and said that it was a sonic boom and that there was nothing

435
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:05,680
to worry about. Now the incidental information from that is that this officer knew someone

436
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:14,000
who worked in a particularly sensitive area of the camp, the area of camp in Germany and

437
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:21,600
they were responsible for collecting a number of pilots from a certain area of the station

438
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:29,200
and this particular driver picked up some pilots who had allegedly been involved in

439
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:35,240
chasing a very large UFO along with other interceptor aircraft across Germany and it

440
00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:42,240
was the UFO that caused the sonic boom as it accelerated from the aircraft. In the words

441
00:40:43,240 --> 00:40:49,240
of the police officer the girl picked up the pilots after the incident and they were

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00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:53,680
as white as sheet and they were obviously chattering amongst themselves having never

443
00:40:53,680 --> 00:41:00,680
seen anything like it. So it is information like that that puts into context some of my

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00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:05,680
air force because I immediately recognise the truth of somebody talking because of my

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00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:09,840
background and I can immediately relate that it is a true event.

446
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:14,840
So then, LeGarry, we have got a website, the address will appear on the screen as we

447
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:20,840
speak in. What can people expect to find from the website? What is going to be there for

448
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:27,840
them? Well at the moment as I thought it was important that very early on in January that

449
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:34,240
I get a very basic website out there. It is very basic, it does set out what I am trying

450
00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:40,600
to do. It does set out contact information where people can email me or telephone me

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00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:47,600
on a confidential telephone number and beyond that I will give my address out once it has

452
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:54,200
been established contact. I am currently in the process of having a website designed

453
00:41:54,200 --> 00:42:00,700
which will be much more transparent, much more user friendly and registering hopefully

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00:42:00,700 --> 00:42:07,700
the proof force as a domain name so it will be a short web address so it hopefully should

455
00:42:09,700 --> 00:42:14,260
begin to be picked up on web magazines and things like that as a good source for people

456
00:42:14,260 --> 00:42:19,540
to go to. I certainly think that is an area where a lot of information will be put out

457
00:42:19,540 --> 00:42:25,420
and be regularly updated. That is my aim is to get the information out there and make

458
00:42:25,420 --> 00:42:30,380
it transparent. I am after getting the information out into the public domain.

459
00:42:30,740 --> 00:42:35,020
So where Alan and Maties asked for that is obviously respected but people are going to

460
00:42:35,020 --> 00:42:41,300
be able to see and read reports from certain police officers. That is right. What I am

461
00:42:41,300 --> 00:42:48,300
hoping for is that with the publication hopefully of the report that I have just completed that

462
00:42:50,860 --> 00:42:56,100
one it will be published in the police review. It is being sent to the police review and

463
00:42:56,140 --> 00:43:03,140
hopefully they will publish some or extracts from the report. I think it is an important

464
00:43:03,780 --> 00:43:09,100
document historically wise because I think it does for the first time collate police

465
00:43:09,100 --> 00:43:16,100
UFO sightings and put them in one place in a chronological order in a very simple logistical

466
00:43:17,260 --> 00:43:23,780
manner much in the way of a police report. I think it is a good reference document that

467
00:43:23,820 --> 00:43:29,940
much of which will be put out onto the new website when it is done. Certainly when the

468
00:43:29,940 --> 00:43:35,740
new website is up and running it will cater for other areas like the information from

469
00:43:35,740 --> 00:43:42,740
Germany that I have just mentioned like police officers being involved in suspected UFO

470
00:43:43,220 --> 00:43:50,220
crashes, like officers being involved in Rendlesham Forest. At this moment in time from a civilian

471
00:43:51,220 --> 00:43:56,860
UFO researcher's point of view it is being very difficult to attract police officers or

472
00:43:56,860 --> 00:44:03,860
gain their confidence I suspect to allow them to speak freely to independent UFO researchers.

473
00:44:03,860 --> 00:44:09,540
I hope that as a serving police officer they may tell me things that they would not ordinarily

474
00:44:09,540 --> 00:44:15,820
tell civilian researchers and if that can be done and I can protect them then I think

475
00:44:15,820 --> 00:44:22,820
that is exactly why proof was settled. Hopefully I can give an insight where all these things

476
00:45:15,820 --> 00:45:22,820
are just like moving at a slow rate of speed.

477
00:46:15,820 --> 00:46:22,820
I think that is a good reference document. I think that is a good reference document.

478
00:46:45,820 --> 00:46:52,820
I think that is a good reference document. I think that is a good reference document.

479
00:47:15,820 --> 00:47:22,820
I think that is a good reference document. I think that is a good reference document.

480
00:47:45,820 --> 00:47:52,820
I think that is a good reference document. I think that is a good reference document.

481
00:48:15,820 --> 00:48:22,820
I think that is a good reference document. I think that is a good reference document.

482
00:48:45,820 --> 00:48:52,820
As a radar station it was split into two squadrons for operations purposes bearing in mind that

483
00:48:57,340 --> 00:49:04,340
it is a small RAF station in comparison to others, a very small place and its primary

484
00:49:06,260 --> 00:49:13,260
role is as a radar station it has no other function. No RAF personnel actually live on

485
00:49:13,620 --> 00:49:20,620
the base they are living elsewhere in the surrounding area and RAF bases close by mostly

486
00:49:23,980 --> 00:49:30,980
cultish all and the whole of the operation that Nita said is geared towards maintaining

487
00:49:36,260 --> 00:49:43,140
the integrity of the southern part of the United Kingdom airspace. Control of air defence

488
00:49:43,220 --> 00:49:50,220
aircraft in their role as interceptors in intercepting would be hostile aircraft or

489
00:49:51,620 --> 00:49:58,620
identifying unknown aircraft but that role was not an everyday role the everyday role

490
00:49:59,540 --> 00:50:06,540
was a routine one of maintaining the integrity of the airspace by recognising all the aircraft

491
00:50:06,540 --> 00:50:13,540
flying in the sky and making sure that they were flying from A to B in the route that

492
00:50:13,820 --> 00:50:20,820
they had been planned to fly and that was the thrust of the job. I was a member of

493
00:50:20,900 --> 00:50:27,900
two squadron, Y Watch. Each squadron was split into two watches and the watches were something

494
00:50:28,380 --> 00:50:35,380
which was used to maintain 24 hour personnel to be available to cover the radar picture

495
00:50:40,980 --> 00:50:46,300
and each squadron was commanded by a squadron leader as I have said and my commander was

496
00:50:46,300 --> 00:50:53,300
a squadron leader called Mike Shields who was supported by a lot of other RAF officers

497
00:50:54,300 --> 00:51:01,300
from junior officer ranks as pilot officers, flying officers and flight left tenants whose

498
00:51:02,980 --> 00:51:09,980
job as air defence controllers was to control air defence aircraft in interceptions and

499
00:51:10,660 --> 00:51:17,660
the recognising of unknown aircraft when the quick reaction alert aircraft were launched

500
00:51:18,380 --> 00:51:24,660
in response to these threats or presumed threats.

501
00:51:24,660 --> 00:51:31,660
NATO said it was an RAF station but obviously being part of the RAF it was part of NATO

502
00:51:31,900 --> 00:51:38,900
and NATO across the board whether it's Army Air Force or Navy have a process where by

503
00:51:39,780 --> 00:51:46,780
personnel from the individual air forces in this case would have tools of duty on stations

504
00:51:49,380 --> 00:51:55,500
or bases in another's air force so at NATO's head we had a number of American air force

505
00:51:55,500 --> 00:52:02,500
officers on exchange postings and my watch commander actually on Y Watch was a captain

506
00:52:02,500 --> 00:52:09,500
Bud Hurran who was an American Air Force officer, a Texan and a very nice gentleman, I was an

507
00:52:09,500 --> 00:52:14,500
airman, a senior air craftsman in Y Watch and periodically through my service at NATO's

508
00:52:14,500 --> 00:52:21,500
head I would be allocated to watch duties that would mean that I would do four days on

509
00:52:22,340 --> 00:52:29,340
and four days off on the four days on you do two 12 hour day shifts then two 12 hour shifts

510
00:52:33,500 --> 00:52:40,500
and the other squadrons watch would be manning the radar station in the ops room when you're

511
00:52:45,060 --> 00:52:51,060
off duty and so there would be lots of people when the squadron were on duty either early

512
00:52:51,060 --> 00:52:58,060
or late and a few people to maintain a basic skeleton crew when it was quiet when there

513
00:52:58,060 --> 00:53:04,860
was no military air defence flying and that crew was responsible for maintaining the integrity

514
00:53:04,860 --> 00:53:11,860
of the air defence of the southern half of the UK recognising all the aircraft airborne

515
00:53:13,340 --> 00:53:20,340
and providing a crew should we suddenly find ourselves in a position where we're at war

516
00:53:21,020 --> 00:53:28,020
or an unknown aircraft turns up or as happened Russian spy planes came over and you were

517
00:53:29,460 --> 00:53:36,460
there to give the basic service requirement to carry out the air defence and control aspect

518
00:53:37,700 --> 00:53:44,700
of taking a fighter aircraft from its base to its interception with an unknown aircraft

519
00:53:44,700 --> 00:53:47,700
and whatever the outcome of that may have been.

520
00:53:47,700 --> 00:53:54,700
As part of the job of maintaining the integrity, the safety of the United Kingdom air defence

521
00:53:58,340 --> 00:54:05,340
environment it's absolutely essential that radar coverage is maintained because otherwise

522
00:54:06,700 --> 00:54:13,380
there's going to be holes in the radar coverage and at a sensitive time between east and west

523
00:54:13,460 --> 00:54:18,660
it's absolutely imperative that you maintain that safety.

524
00:54:18,660 --> 00:54:25,660
So the radar that RF Nita said was in fact two radars both of which were main air defence

525
00:54:28,940 --> 00:54:35,940
primary radars and they were working night and day together and at any one time you could

526
00:54:36,380 --> 00:54:43,380
change from one radar to the other on the radar tube on your screen in front of you

527
00:54:45,380 --> 00:54:51,380
of which there were many in the ops room many screens all involved with doing different

528
00:54:51,380 --> 00:54:58,380
specific jobs to maintain this air defence safety and I actually know for a fact that

529
00:54:59,380 --> 00:55:06,380
these radars have they got a name? Yes, there's a Type 84 and the Type 85 radar and also

530
00:55:10,380 --> 00:55:17,380
at Nita said there was height finding radars whose job was specifically involved in checking

531
00:55:18,500 --> 00:55:25,500
the height of aircraft and they were called HF 200 height finding radars.

532
00:55:26,460 --> 00:55:32,500
So these two radars are working together if there was routine planned maintenance to

533
00:55:32,500 --> 00:55:39,500
them or if one went wrong which as all equipment does from time to time and military equipment

534
00:55:42,140 --> 00:55:49,140
being no different from any other things they do go wrong but you don't have two things

535
00:55:49,900 --> 00:55:56,900
going wrong at the same time. The planned maintenance would be planned so that one radar was operational

536
00:55:58,060 --> 00:56:05,060
while the other was for a brief period of time maintained to its full operating capacity

537
00:56:06,460 --> 00:56:13,460
then switched back on again but all these radars form the defence network and all the

538
00:56:14,380 --> 00:56:21,380
aircraft which these radars pick up are recorded and all the radars are filmed and that would

539
00:56:26,220 --> 00:56:33,220
be for the obvious reasons if there was an incident or a problem the factors involved

540
00:56:36,380 --> 00:56:43,380
in that problem could be traced and tracked and looked at and analysed so its imperative

541
00:56:43,460 --> 00:56:50,460
that the radar picture is recorded and that's not just for incidents or emergencies or problems

542
00:56:50,940 --> 00:56:57,940
it's also for purposes such as training because if you're going to let lots of people loose

543
00:56:59,580 --> 00:57:06,580
on real situations it's best that they train from what's gone before and radar tapes are

544
00:57:06,740 --> 00:57:13,740
no different but all radar is recorded, Neetushead sent its radar picture to other establishments

545
00:57:19,260 --> 00:57:26,260
and one of which was RF Watton Eastern radar which was an air traffic establishment which

546
00:57:26,380 --> 00:57:33,380
is distinct from air defence radar. Air traffic in my understanding were involved in the transit

547
00:57:34,180 --> 00:57:40,380
of an aircraft from one place to another and also the taking off and landing of those

548
00:57:40,380 --> 00:57:47,380
aircraft. Aircraft involved in defence of the realm, interceptions and ancillary aircraft

549
00:57:48,860 --> 00:57:55,860
integral to maintaining that capability such as airborne early warning aircraft or tankers

550
00:57:56,860 --> 00:58:03,860
to refuel aircraft in flight also fall under the air defence umbrella so the two are separate

551
00:58:06,460 --> 00:58:12,460
but interlinked. With regard to the Randallsham incident obviously I'd been aware of that

552
00:58:12,460 --> 00:58:19,460
for a number of years through reading about it and I've had an interest in that during

553
00:58:19,540 --> 00:58:26,540
that time but felt that I personally didn't have anything to add to the incident of a

554
00:58:27,020 --> 00:58:34,020
UFO landing at RF Bentwater's Strait Woodbridge but I had information or knowledge of some

555
00:58:36,780 --> 00:58:43,780
happenings from my Air Force times whether they were linked was hard for me to say or

556
00:58:44,140 --> 00:58:51,140
if I felt I had something to say it was of such a low level of importance to my opinion

557
00:58:53,140 --> 00:58:58,900
at the time that I felt oh well that's interesting and just followed the story the same as anybody

558
00:58:58,900 --> 00:59:04,660
else but it wasn't until the end of August when reading UFO magazine and the article

559
00:59:04,660 --> 00:59:11,660
written by Georgina Bruni stating that the MOD had released information regarding the

560
00:59:11,900 --> 00:59:18,900
Randallsham Forest UFO incident mentioning RAF Neetushead and RAF Watten and the radar

561
00:59:19,420 --> 00:59:26,420
station and the fact that the radar camera was switched off at RAF Neetushead and coincidentally

562
00:59:29,500 --> 00:59:36,500
the radar tapes from RAF Easton at Watten had been processed with a very poor inundated

563
00:59:41,660 --> 00:59:48,660
and eligible result I find absolutely unacceptable bearing in mind this happened at a time when

564
00:59:50,220 --> 00:59:57,220
the backdrop was the Cold War air defence of our country and of NATO was very very important

565
00:59:59,020 --> 01:00:06,020
the UFO flap and the MOD had come down to take away the radar tapes.

566
01:00:06,300 --> 01:00:11,380
Now let's just qualify this again although you can't be certain of the actual date you

567
01:00:11,380 --> 01:00:18,380
know it's Christmas. Yes this is 21 years ago it wasn't a major deal and perhaps no

568
01:00:19,900 --> 01:00:26,900
different from anybody else in society to remember exactly dates and times 20 odd years

569
01:00:27,220 --> 01:00:34,220
ago is a very difficult thing to do bearing in mind that that particular date or dates

570
01:00:34,780 --> 01:00:41,780
of the so called occurrences at Bentwater's and Woodbridge for me would not have meant

571
01:00:42,980 --> 01:00:49,980
anything to me at the time. It is inconceivable that the RAF would not have had their radar

572
01:00:50,660 --> 01:00:57,660
cameras working on at least one of the radars perhaps not of Neetushead but of another establishment

573
01:00:58,340 --> 01:01:05,340
there would definitely be film of radar of that incident of that time.

574
01:01:06,740 --> 01:01:12,240
Tell us how the room was you know what was the discussion who was talking about this

575
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:17,020
was it the NCOs were the officers or was it just ordinary air crew were they talking

576
01:01:17,020 --> 01:01:24,020
about any specifics how for instance did you know this room must have all this claim emerged

577
01:01:24,020 --> 01:01:31,020
about taking the radar tapes. I'm not sure actually how it came about.

578
01:01:31,260 --> 01:01:36,020
As you went into the ops room was it talk over the canteen table. It would have been

579
01:01:36,020 --> 01:01:42,540
a combination of all those bearing in mind that there would have been a Christmas break

580
01:01:42,540 --> 01:01:49,540
at Neetushead at that time for the main squadron duties but a watch system would have operated

581
01:01:50,140 --> 01:01:55,540
but for the bulk of the personnel on the squadrons they would have come back to Neetushead after

582
01:01:55,540 --> 01:02:02,540
the Christmas break period and full of the same talk as anybody else in any walk of life

583
01:02:05,860 --> 01:02:12,860
did you have a nice Christmas all the rest of it but within that there was rumours spoken

584
01:02:13,300 --> 01:02:19,060
about it would be my nickname in the Air Force was Swiller, Swiller Baker for some reason

585
01:02:19,060 --> 01:02:24,740
it would be hello Swill have you heard there's been a big UFO flap on and the MOD's been

586
01:02:24,740 --> 01:02:28,780
down and taken away the radar pictures and that could have happened in the crew room

587
01:02:28,780 --> 01:02:35,780
during a tea break or a quiet period in the ops room or on the bus on the way to work.

588
01:02:36,460 --> 01:02:43,460
From where you're sat now although we're talking about events almost 21 years ago you can sit

589
01:02:44,100 --> 01:02:49,220
there now and look at that camera and tell people that that is exactly what was said

590
01:02:49,220 --> 01:02:54,460
at that time. Yes and it wasn't just one or two people there was lots of people talking

591
01:02:54,460 --> 01:03:01,460
about it I've recently been in contact with an old colleague of mine who served on two

592
01:03:01,460 --> 01:03:06,860
squadron with me during that period and I haven't spoken to him for 15 years I contacted

593
01:03:06,860 --> 01:03:13,300
him through his mum's address who happened to have visited 20 years ago and she's still

594
01:03:13,340 --> 01:03:20,340
lived at the same part of London and I got the telephone number of my friend Mr X I'm

595
01:03:21,460 --> 01:03:25,700
not going to give his name because he hasn't given me permission to at this time but he

596
01:03:25,700 --> 01:03:32,700
remembers exactly the same rumours and when I discussed it with him I didn't make any

597
01:03:33,060 --> 01:03:40,060
connections with the Rendlesham forest thing at the time I just asked him if he'd had

598
01:03:40,060 --> 01:03:47,060
any recollection of a UFO flap and the MOD coming etc and he did have that recollection

599
01:03:48,460 --> 01:03:55,460
in the same degree of accuracy as myself not pinned down or home to a specific time date

600
01:03:55,820 --> 01:04:02,820
person etc but a memory from a period and that would be from that period. Seeing UFOs

601
01:04:02,820 --> 01:04:09,820
for the average person in the street isn't an everyday occurrence and it's the same with

602
01:04:09,820 --> 01:04:15,820
me and same with radar pictures they don't appear all over the place and when they do

603
01:04:15,820 --> 01:04:22,820
it gets talked about I believe I've maintained and upheld the spirit of the Official Secrets

604
01:04:22,820 --> 01:04:28,820
Act I've decided to say what I'm saying now on the strength of the MOD releasing information

605
01:04:29,820 --> 01:04:35,820
if they chose to release what I consider to be the wrong information I feel it's incumbent

606
01:04:35,820 --> 01:04:42,820
on me to offer an alternative view from the standpoint of an ordinary serving member of

607
01:04:44,660 --> 01:04:51,660
an establishment that would be involved in air defence aspects and for the MOD to say

608
01:04:52,660 --> 01:04:59,660
that UFOs are of no defence consideration is absolutely ludicrous because if something

609
01:05:00,900 --> 01:05:07,900
lands next to an air base whether it's RAF or USAF and that base has nuclear weapons on

610
01:05:07,900 --> 01:05:14,900
board excuse me that's very very serious and it is of defence significance and I want

611
01:05:15,220 --> 01:05:22,220
to say however small my part in this was that the MOD probably and almost certainly are

612
01:05:24,020 --> 01:05:31,020
being economical with the truth or at worst lying through their teeth and are withholding

613
01:05:31,660 --> 01:05:38,660
information on this and I have no doubt that there is radar pictures of the event and possibly

614
01:05:38,860 --> 01:05:45,860
others outside of my knowledge as well. Three years ago UFO magazine came into possession

615
01:05:46,940 --> 01:05:52,420
of some two and a half thousand hours of space shuttle footage all of which had been dutifully

616
01:05:52,420 --> 01:05:58,060
recorded and logged over a period of five years by Martin Stubbs a cable TV station

617
01:05:58,060 --> 01:06:05,060
manager in Vancouver Canada. Since releasing successive documentaries about the footage

618
01:06:05,060 --> 01:06:12,060
NASA has maintained a diplomatic silence refusing to comment about sequences such as this or

619
01:06:12,620 --> 01:06:19,620
this or this. Some believe that NASA's reluctance to engage the UFO subject at any level is

620
01:06:21,260 --> 01:06:27,100
born from a deliberate policy making decision but like most institutions who employ tens

621
01:06:27,100 --> 01:06:33,660
of thousands of personnel mistakes are inevitable. Take the case of the vanishing NASA website

622
01:06:33,660 --> 01:06:39,740
for example as told by Andy Ellis founder and head of the civilian UFO organisation

623
01:06:39,740 --> 01:06:46,740
Yorkshire UFO info. Definitely the early missions I think the one that set it all off was STS-84

624
01:06:48,700 --> 01:06:54,180
which became known as Willy footage and that was the one where the object came and stopped

625
01:06:54,180 --> 01:06:58,540
and appeared to hover near me and I mean this was all under a distance of 2800 feet and

626
01:06:58,540 --> 01:07:02,300
it performed maneuvers and flew off in a completely new direction. That set it off

627
01:07:02,300 --> 01:07:07,460
for me and was one of the reasons we set up the website. We wanted to do a website as

628
01:07:07,460 --> 01:07:11,860
like any normal group with local sightings and things like that but with the field that

629
01:07:11,860 --> 01:07:16,420
I'd kind of just slipped into which was the NASA site it just took off from there so that

630
01:07:16,420 --> 01:07:21,140
happened through that that's how I got in touch with Jeff and between Les Willet and

631
01:07:21,140 --> 01:07:25,180
Jeff Challender was where we got the NASA mission footage started and that's where it

632
01:07:25,220 --> 01:07:31,180
took off from so from STS-84 you had STS-96 which had in that one mission probably some

633
01:07:31,180 --> 01:07:35,920
of the best footage I've seen as far as evidence and asking questions goes when you've got

634
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:40,580
illuminated objects in the black of space pulsating past an international space station

635
01:07:40,580 --> 01:07:44,780
that's just being built. You've got several other orbs or balls of light whatever you

636
01:07:44,780 --> 01:07:48,020
want to class them as all we know is they just don't identify and these things are flying

637
01:07:48,020 --> 01:07:53,100
up the Florida key coast and cutting into clouds and chasing lightning and other cloud

638
01:07:54,020 --> 01:07:57,700
formations you've got NASA technicians following these stuff with the cameras not only following

639
01:07:57,700 --> 01:08:02,600
but yet zooming in for a closer look now to follow and to zoom in shows that they're

640
01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:07,220
interested in it not only zooming in but they know that somebody somewhere where could

641
01:08:07,220 --> 01:08:11,940
be watching they pull the feed and kill it so that there's no picture on the feed that

642
01:08:11,940 --> 01:08:15,180
our guys are getting but yet they're still watching so if there's nothing to it there's

643
01:08:15,180 --> 01:08:19,780
no reason to be sneaking doing these little tactics.

644
01:08:19,780 --> 01:08:27,380
And again I'm sure you Jeff, Les and many other people have actually broached NASA with

645
01:08:27,380 --> 01:08:33,300
questions that aren't pertinent questions or aren't rude questions if you like these

646
01:08:33,300 --> 01:08:37,900
are questions that say excuse me can you tell me something about what we're seeing?

647
01:08:37,900 --> 01:08:45,180
I think the biggest problem we've found and Jeff and Les have worked tirelessly on it

648
01:08:45,180 --> 01:08:48,300
people seem to think as soon as you get something like this you just go and scream and it asks

649
01:08:48,300 --> 01:08:52,420
I mean we're only interested in asking questions as well we just want we're not experts so

650
01:08:52,420 --> 01:08:58,480
we've been emailing who we think are the relevant people and asking for advice at first and

651
01:08:58,480 --> 01:09:03,380
asking questions of well why is this doing this and why does it appear to do this and

652
01:09:03,380 --> 01:09:07,180
why is your guy following it if you keep telling us it's ice and debris and why are you cutting

653
01:09:07,180 --> 01:09:10,740
the feed off if there's nothing to it it just it doesn't seem right.

654
01:09:10,740 --> 01:09:17,700
The biggest problem I had was when we got some of the stuff originally 84 and then 96.

655
01:09:17,700 --> 01:09:21,460
I actually took it to a well-known university which is in the city where I'm from so it's

656
01:09:21,460 --> 01:09:25,700
not hard to figure out which university is and I was doing that to go to the heads of

657
01:09:25,700 --> 01:09:30,540
physics and astronomy because I wanted their professional opinion I want looking at something

658
01:09:30,540 --> 01:09:34,260
and going oh wow that's amazing I'm just going to run off with it I did the best I could

659
01:09:34,260 --> 01:09:38,580
by taking it to optics and imagery departments to learn what I could from them and the biggest

660
01:09:38,580 --> 01:09:42,860
problem I had whenever you went up against these skeptics who basically just pooped everything

661
01:09:42,860 --> 01:09:47,700
to do with the NASA footage they were the ones who were abrupt and their whole attitude

662
01:09:47,700 --> 01:09:53,420
stunk and you thought wait a minute I've already been to certain guys who maybe are in the

663
01:09:53,420 --> 01:09:58,100
NASA field but they're not stupid these are professors these are astronomers they've looked

664
01:09:58,100 --> 01:10:02,420
at it and they've said well yeah it's a bit unusual why is it doing that and we're talking

665
01:10:02,420 --> 01:10:07,900
about distances of 2800 feet under the effects of a camera zoom something should be blurred

666
01:10:07,900 --> 01:10:12,740
or something should be affected in the way that you're viewing it so we check these things

667
01:10:12,780 --> 01:10:17,260
but yet you put this to somebody who's not even connected with NASA who are the skeptics

668
01:10:17,260 --> 01:10:21,780
and probably the loudest voices on this and they just completely try to insult your intelligence

669
01:10:21,780 --> 01:10:25,660
maybe get a bit slanderous with the remarks and you think where's this going I mean all

670
01:10:25,660 --> 01:10:29,740
I'm doing is asking a question that all came along again because we were trying to go to

671
01:10:29,740 --> 01:10:34,900
NASA we wanted to learn about the missions people kept saying about find out about the

672
01:10:34,900 --> 01:10:38,460
time lines you can get the flight record you can find out when they're just a rocket so

673
01:10:38,540 --> 01:10:46,580
we wanted to gather as much as we could about the mission and learn a little bit more because

674
01:10:46,580 --> 01:10:50,780
I mean there's only so many insults you can take from certain people who just when you're

675
01:10:50,780 --> 01:10:53,460
dealing with the subject they're trying to insult your intelligence who think you'll

676
01:10:53,460 --> 01:10:56,900
give up basically all you do is stop talking to them people but continue with your work

677
01:10:56,900 --> 01:11:02,660
at the end of the day if you've already checked what you're dealing with to an extent and

678
01:11:02,660 --> 01:11:08,020
that's held up then you continue so we went to NASA looking for answers NASA basically

679
01:11:08,060 --> 01:11:12,580
don't even speak to you on the footage so we were at a loss there but I continue to just

680
01:11:12,580 --> 01:11:19,420
troll around NASA.gov and I thought that it'd be nice maybe to get bits of information on

681
01:11:19,420 --> 01:11:22,500
old missions it might be a bit nice to get some information on the shuttle maybe we'd

682
01:11:22,500 --> 01:11:27,540
get some diagrams and the schematics and stuff like that so I'm just trolling through I

683
01:11:27,540 --> 01:11:31,700
mean there's links and links and links I mean the NASA.gov website's huge and I mean half

684
01:11:31,700 --> 01:11:34,740
of it you within an hour you can just think I've had enough of this because it's just

685
01:11:34,780 --> 01:11:40,380
all technical and talking about this and that but we continued to get going and I went

686
01:11:40,380 --> 01:11:47,380
to one of the electronic reading rooms through one of the various links and in there it had

687
01:11:47,580 --> 01:11:51,660
documents declassified under the freedom of information so I thought well this is worth

688
01:11:51,660 --> 01:11:55,980
a go so I click on that link and it opens another page and it had all different sections

689
01:11:55,980 --> 01:12:02,740
there relating to all kinds of stuff then there was the documents declassified I think

690
01:12:02,740 --> 01:12:07,860
it was something like 97, 98, 1999 so you click on each one of them links and that opened

691
01:12:07,860 --> 01:12:13,220
a different thing we like a log a reference and maybe like an order kind of number that

692
01:12:13,220 --> 01:12:17,980
you could use and within these freedom of information and documents declassified by

693
01:12:17,980 --> 01:12:23,620
NASA which was probably in the title somewhere which was documents declassified by NASA within

694
01:12:23,620 --> 01:12:30,620
the last five six seven years this was where we found among the pages and pages and pages

695
01:12:30,980 --> 01:12:34,780
there was different log numbers that related to what we were dealing with which is the

696
01:12:34,780 --> 01:12:41,060
UFO subject. The feeling we got at first when we started questioning was that the way it

697
01:12:41,060 --> 01:12:46,060
appeared anywhere through trolling through the website was it was more or less NASA thought

698
01:12:46,060 --> 01:12:48,620
or if it ever came out I don't know if it got a congress or who I mean I don't live

699
01:12:48,620 --> 01:12:51,340
in the states I don't know how it worked but the feeling we got and speaking to various

700
01:12:51,340 --> 01:12:55,740
people which some people in NASA do speak to but I can't go into more about that but

701
01:12:55,740 --> 01:12:59,540
the feeling and the way we were appointed was that if NASA have presented this stuff

702
01:12:59,660 --> 01:13:03,180
but not like gone on telling says here's all those documents if they've actually presented

703
01:13:03,180 --> 01:13:07,860
it then they're not classed as hiding anything no but if you find it they can always then

704
01:13:07,860 --> 01:13:12,420
work away around of making it disappear which is probably what they did so the feeling we

705
01:13:12,420 --> 01:13:16,820
got was they presented it they're not making it public and luckily we stumbled on it I

706
01:13:16,820 --> 01:13:21,540
mean I've got a couple of the links which drawn us to it and you've got your usual stuff

707
01:13:21,540 --> 01:13:25,780
I think if I read through a few of them it'll give you an example of the basic kind of stuff

708
01:13:25,860 --> 01:13:31,620
that's there but in with all this basic kind of NASA mumbo jumbo is the stuff that makes

709
01:13:31,620 --> 01:13:34,980
you sit up and pay attention. There's two words that leave off the page isn't there?

710
01:13:34,980 --> 01:13:39,540
I mean there's various things like STS-81 flight readiness review package I mean fair enough

711
01:13:39,540 --> 01:13:44,500
it's just standard stuff you can go from like contract reports telecommunications

712
01:13:45,780 --> 01:13:50,660
you've got various info on headquarters employees it's just the stuff that you'd have and this is

713
01:13:50,740 --> 01:13:57,540
all stuff that's it so I mean and plus this was all under the link of documents released under

714
01:13:57,540 --> 01:14:02,100
the freedom of information so I mean there's pages and pages of this kind of stuff of just

715
01:14:02,100 --> 01:14:06,340
your average thing I mean other things talking about x documents but then you start getting

716
01:14:06,340 --> 01:14:11,300
various questions about UFOs and UFO related documents has declassified within the last five

717
01:14:11,300 --> 01:14:18,100
years now when seeing them once I knew already NASA had like their own kind of MOD stance which is

718
01:14:18,100 --> 01:14:22,660
like the official kind of defense significance yeah there's no defense significance they're not

719
01:14:22,660 --> 01:14:27,220
landing and running around there's no problem NASA had that on their own webpage and a few of these

720
01:14:27,220 --> 01:14:32,740
links that were on there related back to that page but several ones were just completely separate

721
01:14:33,380 --> 01:14:38,180
I mean when we first especially with working with the NASA footage when we seen this one which was

722
01:14:38,180 --> 01:14:46,980
UFO sightings by Apollo 8 11 12 Mercury capsule Mercury 7 8 9 Gemini capsule Gemini 4 7 8 11 12

723
01:14:46,980 --> 01:14:51,940
so I mean by reading it you think well UFO sightings there's there's some information relating to a

724
01:14:51,940 --> 01:14:56,820
UFO sighting by Apollo 8 11 12 it says it there so we made a note of this and I mean I was quite

725
01:14:56,820 --> 01:15:01,060
excited anyway by reading this on I thought well if it's freedom of information we can apply for it

726
01:15:01,060 --> 01:15:07,380
in the United Kingdom and actually on the webpage itself there's a little link that says FOIA

727
01:15:08,020 --> 01:15:12,180
request so you can request through NASA's own website which goes to their freedom of information

728
01:15:12,180 --> 01:15:17,780
officer and he does the usual stuff so I put quite a few requests in just to see what happened

729
01:15:18,500 --> 01:15:23,700
after a while the requests have come back saying like denied and this document doesn't exist at

730
01:15:23,700 --> 01:15:29,060
which point I'd give them the reference number which is like 97 slash 100 and I'd even give them

731
01:15:29,060 --> 01:15:35,220
the complete title and then after a while I got pointed saying oh well all the information you need

732
01:15:35,220 --> 01:15:40,100
is at this link and that link was there like official stance on UFOs there's no defense significance

733
01:15:40,180 --> 01:15:45,060
after reading probably this long page of NASA's involvement with UFOs and how they're not really

734
01:15:45,060 --> 01:15:52,500
bothered because there is no evidence I pointed out to where the FOIA officer well if the document

735
01:15:52,500 --> 01:15:58,020
requested has got a title of UFO sightings by Apollo 8 11 12 why is there nowhere in this

736
01:15:58,020 --> 01:16:02,660
segment of the link you've given me anything that relates to Apollo 8 11 12 doesn't make sense

737
01:16:03,460 --> 01:16:07,300
at which point I've got no answer so we left it at that and I continue to bother them for that one

738
01:16:07,300 --> 01:16:12,580
but as I went further through these links which was in the space I'd say about two days I spent

739
01:16:12,580 --> 01:16:17,540
on just these links and these pages making as many copies as I could it kept cropping up about the

740
01:16:17,540 --> 01:16:24,020
UFO info and then there was NASA facts on UFOs as well as all the other pages that just related to

741
01:16:24,020 --> 01:16:29,620
anything so we kept going then there was the other one the United Government and the unidentified

742
01:16:29,620 --> 01:16:35,300
flying objects that was the link which was their usual stance but the one that really

743
01:16:35,300 --> 01:16:47,140
got me going was this one which was on the 1999 link under release documents this says

744
01:16:47,140 --> 01:16:53,860
information on sighting of possible alien craft now we're not talking about a UFO we're talking

745
01:16:53,860 --> 01:16:58,740
about an alien craft they've actually they've titled it they've changed it from fact sheet on

746
01:16:58,740 --> 01:17:04,660
UFOs to information on sighting of possible alien craft I mean for NASA to use that terminology

747
01:17:04,660 --> 01:17:09,220
it's just I think it's unheard of but to call something in alien craft as an alien I mean it's

748
01:17:09,220 --> 01:17:14,980
it puts in a whole different ballpark to unidentified flying objects this was the only one that

749
01:17:14,980 --> 01:17:19,540
used this terminology of possible sighting on alien craft so as soon as I seen that one

750
01:17:19,540 --> 01:17:24,180
and I mean I knew straight away that it's just completely out of the norm for that even to

751
01:17:24,180 --> 01:17:29,140
be on there you think that every effort had been made for not that not to be there but there's a link

752
01:17:29,140 --> 01:17:34,340
there's a log number so we did the usual thing that we did probably 15 times before put the

753
01:17:34,340 --> 01:17:40,580
requesting the request came back denied and this doesn't exist at which point where did you get this

754
01:17:40,580 --> 01:17:46,260
from I was asked and where did that come from I took a screen grab of the actual freedom of

755
01:17:46,260 --> 01:17:53,140
information webpage and emailed that to the webmaster and the freedom of information officer who is

756
01:17:53,700 --> 01:17:59,300
at NASA no reply from any of these reading a little bit further into it there was another one

757
01:17:59,300 --> 01:18:04,180
which says information about unidentified flying objects and any claim made by people who

758
01:18:04,180 --> 01:18:08,100
say they were abducted by extraterrestrial and I thought well why are NASA interested in people

759
01:18:08,100 --> 01:18:12,820
who claim to be abducted so it was just getting even more suspicious of these average kind of

760
01:18:12,820 --> 01:18:19,540
documents so I've just took a twist for the better for the research we were doing with the NASA footage

761
01:18:19,540 --> 01:18:23,540
because I thought this would be all evidence in our in our corner to point towards the footage that

762
01:18:23,540 --> 01:18:27,700
people are calling ice and debris if I can say to somebody well your class isn't as ice and debris

763
01:18:27,700 --> 01:18:32,260
but if this information on sighting possible alien craft related to a piece of footage we had from

764
01:18:32,340 --> 01:18:38,740
a mission well we've hit the jackpot there so we asked for all this emails get ignored I even

765
01:18:38,740 --> 01:18:43,940
made phone calls to the various freedom of information officer at which point you get

766
01:18:43,940 --> 01:18:48,260
passed around and around and the next minute you're speaking oh Janet who's cleaning a hallway

767
01:18:48,260 --> 01:18:53,620
somewhere so they just basically did not speak to you I would say within the space of two or

768
01:18:53,620 --> 01:18:59,140
three days of actually reporting about the possible alien craft and the abduction one

769
01:18:59,140 --> 01:19:06,100
when I went back to the NASA website just as means for researching this the complete links

770
01:19:06,100 --> 01:19:10,020
had changed there was only one link that related to UFOs and that was the link that was their standard

771
01:19:10,020 --> 01:19:14,340
no defense significance kind of mod thing everything else all the documents released under

772
01:19:14,340 --> 01:19:20,820
information freedom of information the 1997 1998 1999 link which related to all these documents

773
01:19:20,820 --> 01:19:25,780
was gone there was just one single link left from maybe several that I'd used previous but

774
01:19:25,780 --> 01:19:30,740
luckily for me as soon as I'd seen these things I took prints I took screen grabs and we've got the

775
01:19:31,940 --> 01:19:37,140
NASA's own screen freedom of information you can read it it's there it's as it was offered

776
01:19:37,140 --> 01:19:41,300
we took grabs of it which I've emailed back asking and why it's missing to this day still had no

777
01:19:41,300 --> 01:19:48,180
replay Christopher Martin first began experiencing the UFO phenomena at close quarters several years

778
01:19:48,180 --> 01:19:54,580
ago but apart from self publishing a book about those experiences Christopher is perhaps best

779
01:19:54,580 --> 01:20:00,420
known for videotaping some of the most striking daylight UFO footage ever seen of anomalous aerial

780
01:20:00,420 --> 01:20:08,340
activity over London in 2001 Christopher shared his footage after being invited to lecture at

781
01:20:08,340 --> 01:20:15,060
Loughlin, Nevada and earlier this year he traveled even further afield to deliver a series of lectures

782
01:20:15,060 --> 01:20:23,460
in Australia during his visit Christopher met numerous UFO researchers spoke with many fascinating

783
01:20:23,460 --> 01:20:30,580
characters traveled to Pine Gap one of the most secretive bases on the planet and even had time

784
01:20:30,580 --> 01:20:37,940
to spare to videotape yet more anomalous activity down under captured on camera here are just a few

785
01:20:37,940 --> 01:20:46,740
of Christopher's clips from the land of Oz some of the houses there they'll blow your socks off

786
01:20:46,740 --> 01:20:50,980
you've never seen houses like anything I'm not joking I might do a bit of that tomorrow

787
01:20:50,980 --> 01:20:55,460
but just to give you an sense because it will blow your mind

788
01:20:59,460 --> 01:21:06,340
30 years ago I trained as a nurse and midwife and then I was trained into counseling about 15 years

789
01:21:06,340 --> 01:21:11,140
ago and I worked in a medical practice in England for five in the meantime we were looking at going

790
01:21:11,140 --> 01:21:16,980
overseas and Australia seemed a really good bet because it's still a very much a sort of culture

791
01:21:16,980 --> 01:21:23,140
we used to so it was either now or never so in our 40s that we actually came over here with a family

792
01:21:24,020 --> 01:21:28,420
and I decided that really nursing wasn't anymore for me so counseling was the

793
01:21:29,540 --> 01:21:34,260
where I wanted to go in the meantime I got some people with very interesting experiences coming

794
01:21:34,260 --> 01:21:39,060
to me saying look I don't know where to go but these things are happening I don't know if I'm

795
01:21:39,060 --> 01:21:45,380
going crazy and all that kinds of things and the one that was very significant was my very first

796
01:21:45,380 --> 01:21:50,900
experience a mature man a little bit about abduction kinds of experiences through reading

797
01:21:50,900 --> 01:21:57,380
John Mack's book and Whitley Streber's experiences but I never ever thought I'd come across anyone

798
01:21:57,380 --> 01:22:03,140
who had it I thought it's extremely rare and I was actually doing advanced counseling at the time

799
01:22:03,140 --> 01:22:08,820
and I took this to supervision the case study nobody could give me any insight they were all

800
01:22:08,820 --> 01:22:13,700
fascinated but they they couldn't come to any conclusion I found I was educating them and I

801
01:22:13,700 --> 01:22:18,020
thought what's the point of this you know they they're not helping I'm you know I'm doing a course

802
01:22:18,020 --> 01:22:22,900
where we're talking about human experience and they they haven't got a clue so I decided to do

803
01:22:22,900 --> 01:22:28,420
my own research and from that I met another lady who was a social worker that had her own experiences

804
01:22:29,060 --> 01:22:30,580
and we started up a support group

805
01:22:31,300 --> 01:22:36,180
I'm trying to just turn my own thoughts and what do you do?

806
01:22:37,540 --> 01:22:45,300
well just this very very bright light brighter than a star and it started to move

807
01:22:46,260 --> 01:22:53,300
and within the space of a few seconds it was moving up and then it just blinked out it just went

808
01:22:53,300 --> 01:23:00,020
just gone and it's first time I've seen anything like that just amazing

809
01:23:00,020 --> 01:23:10,740
so

810
01:23:20,820 --> 01:23:24,580
download I downloaded it and got the

811
01:23:24,900 --> 01:23:30,740
did you download it to me? no on a sloppy disk and I put the sloppy disk down and they blew it up

812
01:23:30,740 --> 01:23:34,820
the best they could but it's probably the same yellow foam from the city's angle

813
01:23:36,020 --> 01:23:41,300
along with this oh a couple of those that I listened to this is on last week

814
01:23:41,300 --> 01:23:49,380
Tuesday April night but they say Chris they're looking to see me every day and this is in daytime

815
01:23:50,260 --> 01:23:56,820
that's the same goal that that's north if we had the time I'm almost tempted no bullshit

816
01:23:57,780 --> 01:24:03,940
of just going to Wycliffe world which is 400 kilometers north it only takes four hours to drive

817
01:24:03,940 --> 01:24:10,820
then but listen I'm not being silly talking this crap that's another hot spot it's probably hotter

818
01:24:10,820 --> 01:24:21,700
than this at the moment it's so good that by this just a bloke got a bargain body paid $5,000

819
01:24:21,700 --> 01:24:26,900
for it you know this is this area out where we're going today okay it's wide open

820
01:24:28,580 --> 01:24:33,220
channel 9 came up this is Marilyn here good nice lady she speaks good English

821
01:24:34,180 --> 01:24:42,020
but they had these road parties you know they was doing this road they were extending it

822
01:24:42,820 --> 01:24:51,060
for the rail and it was the same thing again what color it was the blue one the blue one

823
01:24:51,060 --> 01:25:00,660
yeah but see my nephew the same one was driving the falcon and his wife was there and I said to

824
01:25:00,660 --> 01:25:08,340
me what see I think there's a blue light waiting for us and my nephew said oh not again auntie

825
01:25:08,340 --> 01:25:14,740
yeah it's it's them all right so we've driving along it was just there in a bush and I said no

826
01:25:14,740 --> 01:25:20,340
it's coming up it sort of came up and it was you can see the spin effects and all the scrub

827
01:25:20,340 --> 01:25:28,180
sort of blue color but it was shaped like that it was the same as the old painting it was the same

828
01:25:28,500 --> 01:25:33,860
exactly when I next to all these things been happening to me yeah

829
01:25:37,300 --> 01:25:44,100
a lot of things so I was just thinking if would they be able to read people's mind

830
01:25:44,100 --> 01:25:50,740
yes where they like well turn and freak it's a lot you know big trip and I couldn't say don't

831
01:25:50,740 --> 01:25:56,100
like going then I thought oh no we're good then I remember then when we got nearly a way clip

832
01:25:56,900 --> 01:26:02,660
we'll probably see something I said to my nephew and his wife and next thing I said yes

833
01:26:03,220 --> 01:26:10,500
the blue lights there and he said not again auntie where I said on the right on the right but it was

834
01:26:10,500 --> 01:26:16,660
it must have landed it was in between the bushes and trees in it but as we got nearer

835
01:26:16,900 --> 01:26:28,820
and I think it's about 300 meters away from the eye way and it came above and it was floating

836
01:26:28,820 --> 01:26:34,820
it was just floating above the trees and you could see beautiful blue light it was so beautiful the

837
01:26:34,820 --> 01:26:44,420
lights itself in a sort of um gave you that feeling was it a soft fluorescent yes yes you had a

838
01:26:44,500 --> 01:26:51,940
pleasant feeling from it yes yes and see one one night it was just an evening the sun just went

839
01:26:51,940 --> 01:27:00,180
down well we sat there and there and we were looking at that rock my sister and I we looked and

840
01:27:00,180 --> 01:27:06,020
looked and nicked him what is that under these two lights came over but it was down with nicked him

841
01:27:06,500 --> 01:27:13,700
and I said you sure it's not Rambo over there and it it was there for a long time

842
01:27:14,580 --> 01:27:17,460
it was there for a long time and I said aren't they gonna move

843
01:27:19,380 --> 01:27:26,180
so I don't know whether they came up and then it started moving but it was so fast

844
01:27:28,180 --> 01:27:30,660
so I think they might got something there in the back

845
01:27:36,980 --> 01:27:42,660
okay listen if I don't get anything and you do you send me a copy of it

846
01:27:54,820 --> 01:27:56,660
oh dear

847
01:27:56,660 --> 01:28:04,340
I've made your grade art department uncorrelated targets and unknown events

848
01:28:05,460 --> 01:28:08,100
so if you'd like to have a grant in your grade art department

849
01:28:09,540 --> 01:28:14,740
perfectly fine they they know all about it apparently it was a fun form I guess so I'm

850
01:28:14,740 --> 01:28:19,140
just delivering it sir what was your name my name is Kathy Dickman I'm from Adelaide

851
01:28:19,780 --> 01:28:23,540
alright so today my name's Jordan King of Acts so very interesting

852
01:28:23,780 --> 01:28:25,140
you get a take some footage

853
01:28:29,860 --> 01:28:33,220
just sort of hand that over and I hope you all get to see it and enjoy

854
01:28:33,220 --> 01:28:36,100
well pass it on thank you very much okay thank you

855
01:28:38,260 --> 01:28:42,260
wait pull out see they walk soon as you start walking they're walking out already

856
01:28:42,260 --> 01:28:43,220
yeah I knew it

857
01:28:44,740 --> 01:28:47,300
ah did it well I did it

858
01:29:53,540 --> 01:29:56,300
oh